This really seems like a no brainer. The Saucon rail trail in Hellertown is a perfect model. The trail is packed on the weekends and has had tremendous support with the community. The current SEPTA line is laying idle and really appears to be quite overgrown and an eyesore - let's clean it up and make it useful. I'm not sure what "To create a trail behind people's homes so that people from other towns can use it, might not be favored by the residents" means? I have a road in front of my house that people from other towns use every day!

This is a great idea. I see no negatives. Having lived here for over 30 years, I can barely remember a time when that rail line was active. As for the arguments about easier access to people's homes? No, I don't think there will be. I run for stretches along those tracks already, so if someone wants to get to your house via the rail line path, they will.

That would be awesome! I have one of these tracks running through my backyard, and I've often wished it would become a trail so I, and others, could use it for recreation. I'm 100% in favor of this.

I agree! This is a wonderful idea! It is a beautiful area. The trail is mainly flat so that all riders could use it. Tyler Park is not very bike rider friendly since it is so hilly.
It would be a positive addition to our township!

If this line is so badly overgrown, not sure how one can run "along stretches of those tracks" everyday...especially since the line is privately owned by SEPTA, which equates to an admittance of daily trespassing.

There are also going to be additional maintenance and patrol costs. And there are plenty of residents opposed, which is why Komelasky stated exactly what he did.

Here is a thought people seem to forget. Residents bought their homes (all of which were built after trains stopped running in January 1983) in view of the track. They have no moral ground arguing against a train, but they DO arguing against a trail. They bought a house with unused tracks (they are not abandoned, and by law, SEPTA cannot do so). These residents had no reason to believe it would become a park/trail. Ironically, anti-trail NIMBYs have a far more valid argument then the anti-rail NIMBYs, even if they are the exact same people.

I want my 2 day trash pick up reinstated before the township pays one penny towards this !!

Bad bad bad perfect way for more non residents to enter our beautiful township and bring with them there noise and trash. What are we gonna do when they start strolling on private property? Build fences. When they start urinating on private property? Build bathrooms I'm sure you won't mind when the ATF comes whipping by when your on a walk. Just what we need more miles to maintain and repair theres no way the police would be able to patrol these areas. Plenty of nice parks in this township and plenty of taxes also

Sorry atv

I love this idea of converting the tracks to a trail. This has been very successful in Brick township where the homes are of equivalent or higher value than here. I think it would bring home values up to be in close proximity to the trail.

I can't believe trash and other such talk would come into this now. The trash pick-up was a smart move that was done to save a tax increase and the township is looking to use grant money for this project. I am a family of 4 with two young kids who initially thought the trash modifications would be a disaster, but it hasn't been a problem at all. I had to adjust to the schedule change, but that wasn't difficult.

This project could help to make the township a nicer place to see and use, regardless of where the people are from.

I agree with Mike B... There are roads around my house. A trail can benefit us in other ways....

Ok so tell me please when the grant money is all gone who pays to clean up this path on a weekly or even a daily schedule,how long is this path? A few miles maybe, I guess the township manager has the extra manpower to have an employee or two walk the path and clean up or empty trash cans , oh yeah I forgot they would need a truck to empty those cans right? So now the path needs to be a road and there you go a road in front of your and now another one behind your house perfect

Can I assume the past efforts to electrify this line have been tabled forever ?
If so then Mr. Pelligrino or his appointee could proceed with a project proposal, cost estimate(grant money,tax revenue etc.) both short and long term and anticipated environmental impact study . Present the findings to the township and let the residents vote on it as a ballot issue.

Ray Oros

Its a great idea. Many other towns have done this already converting the tracks to trails. Lorimer park has one, I just went to one by Jim Thorpe last wkd. And there arent any major problems all the non outdoor activities people are trying to claim there will be. As for people complaining about clean up obviously never stepped foot in most parks these days..there are many parks that aren't patrolled (which cops dont patrol rangers do for those of you who say cops cant patrol the areas), have trash cans, or port a potties and they are all mostly clean and safe. Most responsible people follow the Leave No Trace room & "Pack It In, Pack It Out". Even ones that do have trash cans don't need to be by roads. Most parks have volunteers that keep an eye on things such as trash and removing down branches. To make the trail all they do is rip out the tracks and trim some trees its not a MAJOR event like most non outdoor enthusiasts seem to think. I love how people think its going to make their houses more accessible...when there's a huge path right in front of your house called a ROAD anybody can take anytime. Have fun walking on that with the fear of getting hit by cars when people are walking on the trail safely. As for crime, maybe parents should start being responsible for their kids which is lacking greatly in this area, then there wouldn't be as much crime & mischief everywhere like there already is & possibly on the new trail.

Joe Scott - it won't turn into a road. Pennsylvania was over 4300 miles of dormant railways. In the past 10 years, almost 1000 miles have been turned into public trailways, used for biking / walking / jogging. Take a ride to Hellertown and take a stroll on the trail, you'll see how beautiful it is. There are small trash receptacles in the parking areas, but like all responsible outdoors people, if you bring it in, you bring it out. Trash won't be an issue. The trail is so popular on weekends that there is now a Saturday farmers market in one of the parking lots. I can't believe people actually think a trail behind their house will lead to more break ins. If someone wants to break into your house, they will break into your house. This is a great idea and I'm excited that the B.O.S. is willing to discuss it.

I agree Fred, "me" thinking does obliterate the situation. I'm ashamed. I'm now opposed to the trail. I don't want stolen motorcycles, a parade of thieves, heaps of litter, and out of town trashballs ruining our township. This is clearly a terrible idea.

Rather then basing an opinion on a quick google search, here are some legitimate studies as to the economic benefits of green trails. http://www.railstotrails.org/resources/documents/resource_docs/tgc_economic.pdf

Here is the report, rail trails do not encourage crime, in fact, areas with rail trails have shown a significant decrease. http://www.railstotrails.org/resources/documents/resource_docs/tgc_safecomm.pdf

Property values being negatively effected by a rail trail? Nope, values go up. Here are the facts. http://128.175.63.72/projects/DOCUMENTS/bikepathfinal.pdf

Great. Now try to find some hard facts that do NOT come from rail trail site or rail trail advocacy group. That's like going to a pharmaceutical company website to get the "facts" on their drug.

I couldn't find any - please post the ones you find from opposition.

I hope the community comes to the BOS meetings to support this great idea.
Go Phillies.

I love this idea, I too have walked the line through our township with my dog in all kinds of weather and wished it was clearer and easier to traverse! Got my vote!!!

Got my vote! I have lived in the township for almost 40 years and walked that rail for years with my dog and wished it was clearer for all kinds of weather and so I wouldn't stumble over the rails.

I'm in. This is a great idea and one that many of our friends and neighbors support. What a great way to support and encourage healthy activity. The rails are just sitting there and are an eyesore. Let's make them useful to all of us!

Many of us are opposed to this conversion. Mr. Rosa brings up good points on who will pay to maintain this trail, and it would be proactive for us to continue petitioning the government to restore regional rail service see: newtownline.pa-tec.org. In the meantime, there is a group that is actively lobbying against this trail talk: http://www.stopthenewtowntrail.com/

Incidents like this one here: http://northampton.patch.com/articles/bicyclist-assaulted-on-2nd-street-pike , give even more reason why we should not support the trail. Join our anti-trail cheer at http://www.stopthenewtowntrail.com

I just checked out the site. I'm still laughing at this quote, "A trail in your backyard where hoodlums have access to your property or a safe, quiet train where there is no opportunity for crime or vandalism"
In my neighborhood, there are 11 houses which back up to the existing line. 8 of those houses have young children. I doubt they would be comfortable with a train flying through their backyard.The "hoodlums" have access to everyone's house, trail or no trail.

Of course, the very obvious question comes up: why did any of these folks buy a home that abuts a dormant railroad line if they have concerns? Not that trains are coming back anytime soon, but there would be considerable speed restrictions if a town voiced its concerns. Can't really do much with people walking the trail, then into a backyard which happens far more than people think.
And let's be serious, here. Many children love trains. The choo-choo around the Christmas tree, the New Hope & Ivyland, Strasburg Railroad and Thomas the Tank Engine. Use common sense, be a responsible parent and teach them safety. Look both ways before crossing the street, watch for a moving train, etc. Don't use kids as an excuse, take some responsibility. This is NIMBYism in its purest form. Kids are not NIMBYs: adults are.

I was on a committee about 10 years ago in Upper Southampton to explore the possibility of a rails to trails conversion. We met with township officials from Bryn Athyn, Upper Southampton, Northampton and rails to trails groups as well as townships that had a rail to trail conversion.

My recollection is that our research showed that most of the rail conversions were abandoned freight train lines. The Newtown line is "owned" by SEPTA and SEPTA point blank said that they would not transfer the rights to the line, even in a lease type situation where they kept ownership.

Basically, they said that even though they have no plans to reactivate the line, once the line was paved over and made into a trail, it would be next to impossible to convert it back to a train line, due to public sentiment.

So, before people put too much energy into trying to sway opinion one way or the other, I agree with Mr. Pellegrino. Start with SEPTA and see if a rail to trail conversion is even a remote possibility. If SEPTA has had a change of opinion, then the community groups can debate the pros and cons of it and sway opinion.

Exactly Fred... I would be more concerned with my children getting abducted than hit by a train. The people that would frequent the trails would be hoodlums and criminals. There have been numerous instances of home invasion robberies, abduction, and rape along these ill-conceived trails. The issue of getting hit by a train is far more rare, and groups like operation lifesaver work to prevent that.

Folks, please refrain from posting names and personal information in the comments. Patch allows users to remain as anonymous as they would like. So if someone wants to use a screen name instead of their legal name, that is their right.

Otherwise, keep the comments coming and the conversation going.

I loved the Perkiomen Trail and Schulkyll River Trail when I lived out near Collegeville. There's some pretty nice David Cutler and Toll Brothers developments near them as well as the SEI Investments campus. Great for walking and riding. The upper part of the Perkiomen Trail isn't paved and is used by quite a few horse riders. I never went past Valley Forge, but I'm assuming that between there and the Art Museum it goes through some heavily populated areas.

Support your argument with facts! You can't say "There have been numerous instances of home invasion robberies, abduction, and rape along these ill-conceived trails" without the data to back it up. Post the data and facts here to support it!

Mike, I do not know where your comment went, but here are the facts:3

The FACT that MontCo needs to put up warning signs is an issue right there.

http://northampton.patch.com/articles/bicyclist-assaulted-on-2nd-street-pike (Local, just think what it would be like if there was a trail.

Rape:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-09-03-nun-attack_x.htm
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/fitchburg-ma/THLI8430I6PH669O0

General Crime:
http://www.floydcountytimes.com/pages/full_story?article-Rails%20to%20Trails%20invites%20crime%20=&page_label=full_story&id=1411353&widget=push&open=&;

http://articles.philly.com/2009-06-20/news/25285836_1_norristown-man-cyclists-schuylkill-river-trail

http://hellertown.patch.com/articles/man-accused-of-riding-stolen-motorcycle-on-trail

AX attack, yes AX attack!!:
http://www.newburyportnews.com/archive/x598335005/Man-sought-in-Salisbury-for-ax-attack-on-rail-trail

Home Invasion Robbery:
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sirens/2012/may/24/2-arrested-indian-trail-home-invasion/

Mugging:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/771070--rail-trail-hiker-robbed-at-gunpoint

Dislike of Trail:
http://hellertown.patch.com/articles/why-is-that-creek-road-vs-saucon-rail-trail

Anything else?

Mike Bidwell, Na and others: This is all about you who live adjacent to the line trying to prevent train service or preservation of the railroad, as a railroad. Your posts are quite obvious because your last line of defense against those who do not support removal of the railroad is "we don't want a train in our backyard because we have kids".

Well maybe you should have done your homework before you bought your house. You live next to an inactive railroad, which could be reactivated at any time by SEPTA or a freight company. Its clear this trail group is superficial whose true intent is just preventing the railroad from reopening again. How shallow of you all.

If only some of the posts on this subject came from real people vs. buildourtrail.org sock puppets. Alex Russo is a character from the shoe my granddaughter watches, THE WIZARDS OF WAVERLY PLACE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Russo

My apologies. After having been witness to quite a few fake people on these blogs who post emotionally-laiden comments laced with NIMBYism, my thoughts are somewhat justified. In the future, say more with less. Caps, thirty-two question marks and other "look at me" screams only display your noticable shortcomings. Let's move on.

David said it best. Start with SEPTA and see if a rail to trail conversion is even a remote possibility. They will not touch the line if there is any political unrest. Then let the debates and emotional protests begin.

We have been reading these posts with curiosity and amusement. The Newtown Branch Preservation Foundation is open to negotiations with Ms. Jordan’s “buildourtrail” group to perhaps combine efforts and employ a "rails with trails." Unfortunately, they have declined and rejected all offers of mutual collaboration to improve the railroad jointly.
www.newtownfoundation.org

And us here at Stop The Newtown Trail have also reached out to Mrs. Jordan in an attempt to speak to the group, work together, or attend meetings. They have been unresponsive.

It is noted that Lauren Jordan posted a comment (as "Lauren Jordan") here at approximately 2pm 8/7/12 addressed to Mr. Rosa agreeing to a meeting with us to discuss a "rails with trail" proposal, and then deleted the comment soon thereafter. 'You know Mr Rosa you make some interesting and good points. Please email me and we all can work out a solution to a trail or train'.

Mrs. Jordan is an UST official on the Environmental Advisory Committee who attended one of our meetings in April 2012. It is unclear if she is acting on behalf of UST or as a private citizen with her website. Regardless, we discussed this with the UST manager who said that "rails-to-trails" in Southampton is dead.

We would be very interested in combining efforts rather than pitting one vs. the other.
www.newtownfoundation.org

I back up to the trails in Upper Southampton and I believe it is a bad idea!!! The Southampton Days bring a lot of outsiders as it is into our neighborhood and I have seen first hand what damage they leave behind. I put up for it because it is only a few days but these outsiders drive fast, are very loud and leave trash on our streets!! Remember you may like your neighbors but when you start having an open invitation to our surrounding areas such as Philadelphia, Bensalem, Warminster, etc you may not like what you are inviting in. I am not be negative or prejudice just stating the facts these areas have much higher crime than Upper Southampton. Also our taxes are not as high as Northampton and Warrington, lets keep it that way. We might not have to foot the bill in the beginning but believe me we will later for the upkeep. There is a few men going around the streets trying to get support for the rails to trails these are contractors for septa looking to get the job - beware and do not open the door when they knock. They do not show any ID!